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To comma or not to comma!
Last week my sister gave me back my novel, which she had finished editing (Full edit: grammar, spelling, punctuation, repetition etc.) and she lovingly asked me,
“What is with all the comma’s?”
I replied “Don’t ask me about the comma’s! I am so sick of the comma’s. Word keeps wanting me to add them in places that do not need them. If I don’t correct the sentence, it leaves a grammar correction line under it!”
So I put it to you wonderful writers. Has something changed in the use of the comma? Is there a reason my word program wants me to over use it?
Is it as simple as, my sentences are too long? Do I need to re-write/re-word what I have written, for the sentence to flow better?
I try to make sure that I balance out the length of what I am typing, as to not have the reader run out of breath … but clearly it is not working.
Any advice or input will be very much appreciated.
Cheers.
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18 Replies
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Hello Karen.
Without an instance or two of the sort of correction you mean, it’s difficult to comment. I’d love an example of when Word has questioned the lack of commas (no apostrophe!). They are needed where there is a slight pause, including when separating the items in a list.
I’m guessing that one of the cases you’ve noticed is possibly that of the Oxford Comma, the contoversial one. This is where a comma is missed out after “and” in a list. This is quite wrong but most people do it. For example: hop, skip and jump. This should be: hop, skip, and jump. Each item must be separated, otherwise you are linking the final two items. I’m a champion of the Oxford Comma, as you may guess.
Another example of wrong non-use is when something is in paranthesis, such as: One Sunday at home during the Easter break Julian found the situation weighed heavily on him. Here, there should be a comma after “Sunday” and “break”. Many people would leave them out.
Many punctuational offences are accepted these days so perhaps it’s something you needn’t worry about too much.
I hope this helps.
Rose
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Thank you for your input. I have always used commas in my writing , but have honestly noticed that word wants me to put them in places I usually wouldn’t. This leads to those annoying little lines, which make me think I am not grammatically correct.
I might just go back to how I have always written and ‘ignore’ the hints. Perhaps the next edit of my book might give me another way look at it all.
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Good question Karen.
I often have different feedback from different readers and not all seem to agree on punctuation and grammar. I didn’t have the education for it and find the AI tools that help equally confusing but, sometimes, the way I want the words to be read don’t ring true when all those commas are played with.
I think I’m doing something wrong.
Rose your answer helps, thank you for that. Be interested to hear other people’s experience.
(I hope I have the commas in the right place in this.)
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Thank you. I understand what you are saying.
With too many comma’s the sentence structure is messed up, and even reading the sentence out loud, I stumble over the commas. I might just write the way I would normally do so, and get the editor to give feedback at the end.
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Well, if I’m to judge over what you’ve written here, it looks quite okay. If anything, I’d change Is it as simple as, my sentences are too long? to Is it as simple as my sentences being too long? Commas are not for this particular use.
But that “upper comma” hurts. No plurals are made in English words by using an apostrophe. No. Not that one. Not that other one either. NONE.
Now, the grammar corrector in word processors is a great thing, but here’s the deal: you are NOT obligated to take it to heart. I see from time to time those dreaded lines appear where there shouldn’t be any, because I’ve written it correctly and I know it. It’s just that the corrector is only a computer application. It can’t discern further than what has been programmed into it. It only knows what it’s been fed, but cannot make accurate judgements when it encounters a use that has not been considered in the contents of what it’s been fed.
So the best solution is to learn from reliable sources, practise, and then when you think the programme is definitely wrong when trying to correct you, just ignore it. It may point out at an underlying problem, but it is your job to research if you’re right or not. Don’t trust it blindly, because it is blind itself.
Have fun writing!
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Thank you. I have removed a fair amount of the comma’s as I am going through my edited novel, and am ignoring the computer when it tries to underline the words. I have also found, that perhaps I have needed to change my wording, for the sentence to not require the comma.
Your input has helped. Once again, thank you.
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Hello Natalia,
I think people can be confused by the use of the apostrophe where possessive plural applies, as in “the members’ responses”. Also, perhaps there isn’t much emphasis on the correct use of punctuation in schools as there used to be. A view I’ve heard expressed in the past is that such things curb creativity (cobblers!). As for corrective software for punctuation or grammar, it seems you’re better off without it. I never use it. 😃
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Hi, Karen. I hate to stir the waters, but I never use the Oxford comma, having been taught at school (many decades ago!) that ‘and’ removed the need for a further comma in a list. You can look up ‘correct use of commas on the web, but – in the words of the great Debi Alper – “There are no rules … except this one.” If it feels right to you, go ahead with it.
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Thank you.
It is a learning curve in the long list of skills needed to write a good book. I love the fact other writers on here are very willing to give advice.
I will take all I get and hopefully, in time, will gain a better understanding of the best grammar and punctuation do’s and do nots.
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I also was taught to not use the Oxford comma but Neil Gaiman has amusingly argued its case…
Image attached but if you doesn’t load, here’s what it says:
Good Omens was co-written almost 30 years ago by Sir Terry, who died in 2015 after a public struggle with Alzheimer’s, and Neil Gaiman.
Neil Gaiman: “I was grateful for the comma”
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That’s a great example of where the use/non-use of a comma can give a sentence a totally different meaning.
I can imagine the great Sir Terry adding a footnote along the lines of “Comma optional, depending on whether or not you are Neil Gaiman.”-
😂
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Hi Karen
Use a comma to join two independent clauses: It’s hot, and I need my fan.
No comma to connect a dependent clause: I was hot and cooled off with my fan.
No comma when two independent clauses are short and closely connected: Billy wafted and Samantha swooned.
Now please join Jericho Wall Betas, we need good writers like you. Wait for it – I’m a big fan.
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Hi Karen
I’d suggest taking no notice of what any online tools tell you, especially as many seem to use American English, which, in my view, is not English 🙂
It’s not a failsafe option but I like to read my work aloud and, where a sentence has a pair of commas, see if a sentence still makes sense when the words that are bounded by the commas are removed.
The Economist Style Guide has a very good section on commas and other punctuation. It’s also an entertaining read in its own right.
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Hi Karen. Well, since no-one else has suggested this, here goes! Read your passage out loud. Wherever you stop for breath or pause for emphasis, (like there) put a comma. And as everyone else above says, go with your gut feeling not the automatic corrections. Incidentally, I think you can change the settings of these somehow, only don’t ask me how…
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Thank you. That is pretty much how I type. Comma when I would breath, but my word program tends to want more comma’s than I would usually use. I guess a lot might have changed since I left school 30 years ago too.
I will persist with how I usually type, and maybe leave it up to the editors to correct.
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Hi Karen
I noticed recently that the latest version of Word I’m using has changed its rules regarding grammar and punctuation. Drives me mad!
You can change your settings by going to: Writing Style > Grammar & Refinements > Settings.
Hope this helps.
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Thank you for this.
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