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Accepting Critisicm
I would really appreciate some thoughts and advice on accepting criticism.
It’s important to stress that I’m not looking for sympathy – anyone who post work on a public forum and is then surprised to receive unfavourable comments, probably shouldn’t have been posting in the first place. What I am interested in is the experience of others who may have received such criticism, in particular how they have coped and moved on.
Here’s the scenario; a few days ago I posted a piece and asked for feedback. Initially when I received a response I was pleased that someone had not only read it but had kindly taken the trouble to respond with some observations. The pleasure was short-lived. As the comments in the critique sank in I felt like I had been winded. Since then I have been haunted by the whole business. It has to be said that the critique was especially difficult as most of what was said was true (most). In a sense this is the worst type of criticism as it reinforces your own self-doubts.
In essence what happened was a massive reality check. I imagine we all walk a thin line between withering self-doubt and blind self-confidence. Without the former we would lack the sensitivity that creativity requires, without the latter we wouldn’t start. Between feelings of never wanting to write another word I have tried to listen to the inner voice exhorting me to ‘get back on the horse’. Shouldn’t I just have the courage to take the criticism, learn from it and emerge a better writer on the other side? But what of the other voice that’s begging me to retreat into a darkened room never to emerge?
I’d love to hear from others of they have had any similar experiences and how they have dealt with it.
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21 Replies
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Getting feedback can be hideous. You’ve put your baby, who you’ve slaved over and cherished and poured your soul into, out there for someone to read and now they’ve told you all these things that need improving. I’ve been there. I know how it feels. You are entirely justified to grind your teeth, wail and disappear under your duvet with tea and chocolates/a bottle of vodka.
I’d suggesting giving yourself a little time to let the sting wear off and digest what’s been said. It sounds as if you’re already on the way because you’ve admitted that most of what has been said is true. (Though always put feedback through an accept/adapt/reject filter)
I used to feel as if I was blundering around in the dark, not knowing whether my writing was any good or how to improve it. Getting feedback turned out to be a big turning point, even though it was tough to accept at first. But it is the most effective way to improve. I’ve gone in the other direction now and relish getting crits (after the initial sting has worn off anyway) because it gives me focus and direction.
Hopefully you will be able to dust yourself off and use what you’ve been given to improve. And when you’ve rewritten that chapter you’ll have a lovely glowy feeling at what you’ve achieved.
If I’m ever feeling a bit down about the whole process I find this guys blogs usually give me a well timed kick up the backside. There’s a lovely bit about getting feedback in there which might help you, but be warned he does swear a lot. http://www.chrisbrecheen.com/2017/09/25-things-to-let-go-if-you-want-to.html
Good luck. I really hope you start to feel more positive and get back on the horse soon. 🙂
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Thanks Kate – I guess more than anything I just need to hear ‘not just me then?’. You’re so right about giving myself a little time. Age / expereince has taught me the value of this. Twenty years ago I would have immediately flown into a rage, deleted my profile from the forum, thrown my MS on the fire (can you throw a digital MS on the fire?), plotted murder then gone down the pub and provoked a fight. I’m a little calmer now and have fortunately avoided the temptation of the any of the above. I love the accept/adapt/reject filter and shall be applying this forthwith.
I’ve had a quick glance at the blog post – solid stuff. I will look properly after I finished that thing called work today 🙂
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Ha! Keep the murder plot for if you ever write some fiction. You’re definitely not on your own. I’d better get back to that pesky thing called work too.
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Hi Martin,
Well, first things first. You can, technically, throw a digital manuscript in the fire. However, I would strongly warn agaisnt this as there are certain elements of the device it’s on that you really don’t want in a fire. They either spew poison or go boom. (Of course, if it’s backed up to the cloud, you’re endangering yourself to no good end.)
Second things – well done of putting yourself out there. It’s big,
Now, to the actual answer…
As Kate says, yes, allow yourself to calm down and step back, see it objectively. However, there’s a further thing you can do to get better feedback in the first place. (Too late this time, but you can apply in the future.)
Know who you’re getting the feedback from, and make sure those providing feedback know what you’re asking for. And, no, I don’t mean that they know to just praise everything, because the whole point of feedback – as Kate alluded to – is to get the negatives so we can remove them from the document.
I’m deriving this from Mary Robinette Kowal’s video on meaningful critique.
When I say know who is providing feedback, where do they fit on the pleb-reader-writer-editor scale? What do they understand about how story works? How much are they qualified to say?
For most critique, all you want to ask for are symptoms. What worked and what didn’t? What engaged you, and what threw you out of the story? Where were you bored? What didn’t you understand or believe? When didn’t you care? Pretty much anyone who actually reads can provide this kind of feedback, though you should consider whether they read in-genre.
The next step up is diagnosis – the logic behind the symptoms. What made them feel that way about your writing? Most people, even most writers, aren’t going to fully understand the reasoning behind why something doesn’t work. If it’s a phrasing issue, they might, but if it’s structural, they don’t have your depthy of understanding of the whole. (Mary Robinette gives a good example of a single word that made a lot of people uncomfortable, but she only diagnosed it when someone accused a character of having a certin trait because of that word.)
Lastly, there’s the prescription: how to fix the problem. This is your job. The only time you should even solicit this advice is from your editor. And even then, at most, it’s a hint, not carved in stone. (Likewise, you shouldn’t ever offer it. If someone insists, caveat it with “If I were writing this, I might try … but it’s your work, it’s your solution to find.)
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Hi Rick – thanks for taking the time to respond – your advice is sound and extremely useful. What Kate says above about the accept/adapt/reject filter is just right and elaborated upon by you here. Of course the judgement on when and how to apply the accept/adapt/reject filter is crirical.
The ‘one word’ comment reminded me of a true story that is perhaps the cruelest ever critique – over heard by a friend of mine. It followed the first sermon of a novice at a well known public school in North Yorkshire. After the service the novice approached the Abbot to ask how he had done. The Abbot replied that it was perfect in every way … apart from one word. At which point he turned to talk to someone else, leaving the novice obliged to re-examine the entire 2 hour sermon to try to figure out the ill-chosen word. Based on your observation that one should be aware who you are asking, I probably won’t be asking a Catholic priest.
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I’ve been relatively lucky with feedback received on forums such as this, and particularly its predecessor, the Word Cloud. It was really drummed into users there that feedback had to be constructive and that negative comments in particular had to be carefully framed. As such I am not 100% sure that everyone felt free to be totally frank – certainly if I saw a piece of writing that I thought was total crap I would simply refrain from making any comment at all. I think that if people take the trouble to respond they see merit, even if it doesn’t feel like it to you.
I commissioned some MS reviews from Jericho (then the Writers’ Workshop). The first was a mini report and although it pointed out utter horrors it was so nicely put that I didn’t take any umbrage at all. The second was a full report on the same MS from a different editor – and boy did I take umbrage at some of the stuff he came out with. He was right, I now realise, but it was hard to take.
Some people are better at sugaring the pill than others, or like to do plenty of sugaring, just in case. If I am critiquing work I will temper my comments depending on how well I know the person online, or whether it seems clear they are a total newbie or have been writing for a while. I tread very, very carefully if someone admits this is the first time they have put out work for critique, or if it is obvious that this is their very first baby, because it is really horrid to have one’s baby criticised. On the other hand I have beta read a whole series of books for an online friend and these days I am much more robust in saying where it’s going wrong for me as a reader, because I know she can take it and that’s what she wants me to do.
The thing is – if you know that the comments in the criticism are true then it has been helpful, even if it feels grim right now. Don’t let the self-doubt eat you up. You can improve this MS and make other mistakes in the next one (always an optimist, me.) Chin up.
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Hi Bella – thanks for taking the time to respond – all these comments are so re-assuring in as much as they are helping me figure out how extract positives and not shoot myself!
In particular your observation about the fact that someone bothers to respond is a kind of pat on the back in itself – if somewhat obtuse. What you say about something being ‘total crap’ made me laugh and is very valid; silence is a cruel critique.
Somewhere on the book-shelf I have a collection of cartoons which contains a splendid tasteless one of a a woman leaning into a pram to inspect a new baby whilst holding out a crucifix. The humour is in the total lack of taste, but in its extremity it does illustate the point about insisting on nothing but love for our babies. We all need to learn the value of the sh*t sandwich. (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Shit%20Sandwich)
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This is a tricky one.
Most great writers I know are fiercely self-critical, and never really feel satisfied even after twenty rewrites. That is why they are so good. They have set the bar for themselves so high. In some cases they have unhealthy coping mechanisms for turning this criticism off—like massive alcohol intake after hours. Would not recommend that one though.
However, they are careful about getting feedback too early, and have learned how to “sweep and keep” with the feedback they do receive—only looking for those suggestions they can use and disregarding anything else.
There are some cool Scrivener templates out there (such as the K.M. Weiland template) that will show you specifically how to structure a novel so you are not missing the hook, set up, first plot point, first pinch point etc. If you do not have these when you start, and you get too far off track and into the weeds, it can set you back by six months.
However, if you do have these elements, you can safely proceed and should probably keep your head down and type until you feel you have something really strong—without seeking validation too early or for the wrong reasons.
While writing the first draft, your mindset should be “is there any way to do this more efficiently?” If you go on for five pages and you are still in the same room or scene you may want to move it along, change scenes, tighten the screws, cut excess baggage, unnecessary dialogue, etc. I know some people hate The Da Vinci Code but it is one heck of a lesson on how to write 2,700 word chapters that move the plot along like a rocket at a break neck pace.
Ninety percent of what readers complain about is not concept or idea but excessive baggage—scenes or dialogue that go on too long, without the constant SURPRISES that keep things interesting.
Once you have something you feel is a strong effort, then seek specific feedback on these things: where did it get too slow, where did it drag, etc. Also ask “what did you like?” Cut out the stuff that drags and take a clue from the stuff they like.
But bear in mind, if you are any good you will always feel like you could have done better. The very worst writers are the ones who always feel that what they have done is just wonderful.
Massive self-criticism—and the relentless drive to overcome it—is the foundation of greatness I am afraid.
If you are good, get used to it.
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Hi David – thanks for responding with a really excellent summary of the process of criticism and what our attitude should be to it.
Something that tends to haunt us is the exceptions to the rules amongst the greats. In the case of ‘baggage’ just how did Proust get away with it? Sentences in the order for a thousand words and descriptions that rattle on for pages. Perhaps the clue is in his famous observation that prose should be combed until it shines – amen to that!
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Hi Martin, I am replying to you because I wrote an early observation. We all know there are ways to be critical, but for me a truth gives you food for thought. I strongly believe honest comments are much better. If they are not true, ignore them, but perhaps, maybe think if I am not getting through to everybody then I am wide of the mark. My thought is, I would rather be roasted and told my work was rubbish and keep posting it out and wondering why no one buys it.
I think you started by saying you had written 168, 000 words which were not good and you felt you were better off writing non fiction.
I would pause and think maybe you love to write but need to be committed to a subject or point of view you believe in. Keep at it. It is a tough road. Kind regards, Les
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HI Martin
Criticism is hard – especially if you are new to writing – it’s something that you do get used to, wait until you start reading your amazon reviews!
I don’t tend to post any of my writing on forums anymore, and it’s not because I’m beyond that or anything, but I now have a critique person that I use to assess my draft. She is balanced and brutal in the same measure but I’ve worked with her for about 4 years now and some of what she says is worse than anything anyone would ever say on a forum like this – but as a writer I need that input to grow and develop. It gets me annoyed and occasionally leaves me dispirited initially. As a writer I’ve taken time, pain and a huge effort to bring something together that I thought was good and she drives a coach and horses through the middle.
What I do is I read it through twice, then put it to one side and don’t look at either the manuscript or the critique for at least a week, to let it ferment in my brain for a while, then I go back to it and look at it afresh and lo and behold what she has said is spot on. I then make the changes and suddenly I have a much better piece of writing. She didn’t start out being so brutal with me but as our relationship developed she knows what I need. The most important thing is that she ‘gets’ me.
I don’t accept everything she says and similarly when you eventually get published you don’t need to accept all the advice a publishing editor gives you (but bear in mind if you don’t listen to most of it they might pull your contract!)
Don’t get downhearted and remember it is a useful stage of developing a thick skin which will serve you well later on.
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Ah yes – the thick skin thing.
In my response to David above I mentioned Proust. A man with a ‘skin’ so thin it was practically transparent. I also mused on how he might have got away with it – then it dawned me – A la Recherche du Temps Perdu was self-published! The ultimate get out of gaol card for writers. However I suspect that self-publishing in early twentieth century Paris was somewhat different today. Getting noticed amongst the white noise of the internet as opposed to the literati of les années folles is a challenge of an altogether different order.
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Thanks Les – as it happens you are absoutely right about committment to the subject. It’s been a long journey but I’ve always somehow known that fiction wasn’t for me. As I write fiction I always have a nagging sense that I’m doing this because I have to. This never works. The upside of writing non-fiction is that, even if it never gets picked up, I will have loved writing it. Lesson for all of us here?
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Hi Martin
I found when I was taken aback by criticism it was because I had a clear picture in my head of the story I was telling and how I visualised it being perceived. (This applies to non-fiction as well as fiction.)
Then, of course, when someone else read my work, they came at it from a totally different viewpoint. It came as a shock to realise what I thought I was communicating so clearly had hit their brain and bounced back into a completely different picture to the one I had in my head. They picked up on aspects I hadn’t even considered.
What I’m trying to say (badly) is that for me, it was about adjusting my mindset. Criticism isn’t about whether something is good or bad – it’s how someone else has interpreted what you’ve written.
I decided that if I wanted my writing to appeal to a wide audience, the more diverse interpretations I received, the more I would be able to improve.
I now seek criticism, and apart from the occasional niggle of annoyance, I always enjoy reading it.
Michelle
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Fine point Michelle – it reminds me of when I used to amateur dramatics. We would rehearse to the point where we would almost pause in anticipation of audience laughter. Time after time when it came to the actual performance, the bits we expected the audience to fall about were met with stoney silence, whereas quite unexpected passages produced the laughs. What was important, of course, is that they laughed at all and that it was with us not at us!
Hilary is on the same track – Brandon Q. Morris’s readers probably hate Hilary Mantel whose readers think Dan Brown is rubbish.
Thanks to you both for thoughts
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I think when it comes to criticism it important to remember how subjective it can be. One agent at the recent Winchester Writers Festival loved an excerpt and requested the full manuscript while another rubbished the same work. If you enjoy writing just keep going.
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Hi Martin!
Great advice above from Kate and Rick. I’d just like to add here something that I’ve experienced on another platform and illustrates well the points made above:
Some time ago I spotted a brilliant piece of writing on a writers’ site that specializes in sharing & feedback. That piece had a rare literary quality to it, a brilliant & distinct voice, great imagery, a dreamy feel of reminiscence and longing. The only problem was with pace and structure, all easily solved because this writer could write well – the most important bit. I gave a good and honest critique and looked forward to reading the next chapters. A couple of other people gave indistinct critiques that showed they did not understand much about writing or critiquing.
And then others start saying it lacked suspense and conflict and it needed something like a fight or a shootout right at the beginning… a murder was suggested. That sort of conflict… The writer started changing his piece with every single critique, to the point where it was unrecognizable and completely ruined. But if he had looked at the profile of the people offering the critiques, he’d see they were into crime and sci-fi, and did not write very well themselves… I don’t think they were able to appreciate a literary piece.
Luckily another experienced writer spotted the quality of the original piece and told the writer he should stick to it. I added my voice to reinforce the point that it was a good piece. In the end the writer disregarded the majority of critiques and went on to win a literary competition with his original piece.
So… always ask yourself first: Who’s this critique from? Why are they saying this? What do they know?
Keep writing and keep smiling!
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Hi Donna – thanks for taking the time to reply. I had a wry smile to myself (is this even possible?) that it seems that my ‘accepting criticism’ has gained a larger audience than anything I have ever written. It’s certainly touched a nerve.
A bit of a pattern is emerging – to which your reply largeley conforms and which was neatly summed up by Kate above: accept/adapt/reject – a sort of writers version of snog, marry, avoid. Add to this the ‘who is criticising filter?’ and here’s your answer. Oh, and don’t forget ‘Pick yourself up, dust yourself down and keep writing’.
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Hi Martin.
I completely understand. I’m also pretty sensitive, and it is the real reason I’m putting myself out there. Because it’s hard. My doctor recently told me that when you do something hard, it’s going to create some anxiety. Just like what you are doing. It is so hard to put out your well-cooked meal only to have it ravaged to bits by people you don’t totally know.
I’m learning that each draft of my work plays a role. Perhaps the feedback you receive is more about your personal growth than your writing, personal growth that will push you to that next version, beyond where you could have gone yourself. It is so scary. I can’t even look the same day as I’ve posted or before bed because I know how I will react.
I’m considering this part of my writing process now. I don’t get mad at myself for being sensitive, rather, I take what I get and let it sit for a few days. But it does hurt sometimes. And that is okay. I’m really thankful you put up this post.
I hope I do not sound like I’m giving you platitudes because I’m a real live person who hurts too when my work is torn apart. Sometimes if the piece is too close to home, I won’t post it because I know that I really need to take care of myself around it. I feel that I’ve given you nothing here, except safety in numbers! It is hard for me too. I’m a perfectionist and I’m learning that I underestimate the amount of work it takes to the finished product. Understanding how many times I may have to go back to the drawing board helps me see the critiques as part of the process.
Take good care. If you have something short, I’d love to take a read:
No pressure. I can send you something too so we can practice kindly giving each other pointers!! haha!!
Literary hugs, (I’m not sure what it means but I like it)
Kelly (California)
